Matt Woodley, PreachingToday.com: I've heard you preach at Wooddale Church—you have a unique, creative way of illustrating your sermons. How would you describe your illustration process to other preachers?

Dale Hummel: First, I start with the big idea of my text. What does the text say? What is the main idea? Based on the text, what do I want to get across to my listeners? I realize that I have different kinds of listeners—some who are cognitive, some who connect with stories, some who are visual, some who are emotional.

My desire to connect with these different listeners is influenced a lot by my own experience growing up in church. I remember so many people just sitting there, not connecting at all with whoever was communicating. I was bored, and most of the time I didn't understand what the preacher was saying. I would look around and see people not paying attention, not talking about what they just experienced that Sunday. I remember telling myself, Man, if I ever do this, I'm going to make this relevant. I want young people to be connected to the main idea in the text. I don't want them to go through what I've gone through. Lo and behold, I responded to a call to ministry and I'm trying to follow through on that commitment.

I've tried very hard to make the truth practical for many different listeners. But because I learn by story, and objects, and living illustrations, I've brought that into my preaching.

So that's my grid: How will somebody like me hear my sermon? How will they take this with them? I see illustrations as hooks for people to hang the truth on. It's easy for them to remember a picture, a story, an object. And when they do, it triggers the things they heard.

Walk us through your creative process. Where do you come up with your illustration ideas?

As I'm reading through a text and preparing the sermon, I ask myself, "Does this text give me the illustration that I need? What is the symbol in this text?"

For instance, I did a message from John chapter 13 on Maundy Thursday. There's a basin, there's a towel, there's water. So why not have a table up there—with a pitcher of water, a basin, and a towel? Why not take my suit coat off and grab the basin, grab the water, grab the towel? I don't necessarily have to wash someone's feet, but I could engage someone's senses now—and that text is coming to life. They see the symbols of the text in real life.

I also watch other contemporary preachers and "steal" from them. (Giving credit where it's due!). I saw one preacher who used a ladder to great effect in a sermon. So when I did a message on Joseph in prison—who just keeps getting beat down—I found a big cardboard box, put a ladder inside, and climbed in and out of the box as Joseph went in and out of prison in the text, until finally, I came out of the box. A lot of people look at that symbol and it resonates with them, it allows them to see themselves.

And I'm not against entertaining, either. Lyle Schaller, a good friend, said to me one day, "Dale, great church is great theater." I'm not talking about entertainment just for entertainment's sake, but holding people's attention so that the truth slips in. Often when I watch a movie, I'm being entertained by it, but I also remember that whoever wrote that movie, whoever produced it, was also trying to communicate something to me. The best movies are the ones we leave but we can't get their images out of our mind. The story has stuck, because we were entertained.

I noticed in one recent sermon that you did a first-person narrative with Peter from Luke 5. So you were Peter in a boat with chains for the first 9 or 10 minutes of the sermon, talking about freedom. Would that be an example of your philosophy of illustrating?

Yes, it would. Now, I don't do that often because I have to be sure that I don't keep doing the same thing over and over again—it would lose its appeal. So for instance, I also use the chalkboard a lot when I teach. But I don't use it every weekend in a series. I do the same thing with first-person narratives. I'll use them occasionally, stay away from them for awhile, and then do one again.

Telling a story in the first person can make that person in the text (someone we may tend to put a halo on) and make him or her more human. We see that they're just like us. It humanizes these biblical characters for our people. When I do a first person narrative sermon, I've looked at the text and thought, Gee, I'm going to go through a lot of time trying to explain this text. I can either tell it from Peter's perspective, after I've immersed myself in the text, or I can just sit there as a talking head and give people a lot of information. People will remember the first one. So I got a boat, got others involved, and told the story.

You were a good Peter, by the way. Very convincing.

Thanks!

That reminds me—a lot of your illustrations are really low tech—like holding up a bag of garlic, or drawing simple stick figure men on a huge chalkboard. Why?

Part of my choice to lean on the low-tech style is how I'm wired. Part of it is from watching other people. Part of it is reflecting on the teachers who made the biggest impact in my life, and how did that. I'm always trying to learn, always looking at contrarian views of communication. We're the age of high-tech and smart boards and social media. It's routine for people. I try to say, Okay, what can I do that they're not used to? I think that's a fun challenge.

I even did a flannel graph for one of my messages. They made a huge flannel graph board for me. I said, "I got this brand new technology—how many of you have never heard of a flannel graph?" I was amazed at the number of people that raised their hands. You could almost hear this collective excitement about this "old school technology." So it allowed me to engage two audiences—the ones who have fond memories of flannel graph, and the one for whom it's a novelty. It stuck with both groups.

The other thing I try to do—like with a chalkboard for example—is to try to get people to engage with me in the sermon process. I encourage people to do something as silly as draw stick figures with me. I'm engaging them in the truth that I'm trying to communicate. So they're hearing it, seeing it, and actually doing it with me. That sticks.

So there's power in simple illustrations.

Very much so.

Tell me more about how you use object lessons.

Sure. When I'm preparing my message and I look through it, I have to stand away from it and then come back to it again and ask myself if it grabs me or not. Because if it's not grabbing me, I know it's not going to grab my audience. I've always tried to run it through the framework of how a junior or senior higher is going to hear this. Because I work really hard to try to get them in our services. I know if I can get their attention I'm going to get the adults' attention. I'll say to myself, "I've got this great truth I want to deliver but I need something that people can hang the truth on that they can relate to."

For instance, if I'm talking about temptation, I can go to Costco and buy a chocolate cake, and I can have it sitting up there. I may let it sit there for half the message and I know I've already got people's curiosity. What's that all about, what's he going to do with that? Everybody relates to a chocolate cake and the desire for it. Everybody knows this thought process: "Hey, I'm only going to have one slice of this. But then, man, another slice would be good." Then the next thing you know we're way into the chocolate cake. Well, the chocolate cake is the equivalent of sexual temptation or whatever else is out there.

I saw a guy do an illustration with Alka-Seltzer years ago and it's been one of the best object lessons I've found for what it means to live a Spirit-filled life. I'll bring out a glass of water and a couple packets of Alka-Seltzer and I'll drop the packet wrapped up in the water and there is no reaction. Then I'll take the next packet, unzip it or tear it open, and put the pills into the water so everyone can see that fizz coming out. It sounds silly and dumb, but all of a sudden what has happened? It's like the package was there, it just hadn't been opened. So when I'm born again I receive the Holy Spirit, but this illustration asks: Have I surrendered myself to his presence? And when I do surrender to God's presence, there should be some reaction, some response in my life. So with an ordinary object lesson I've just communicated a profound truth with a simple illustration.

That's really good.

I think having a creative team around us is helpful. So I try to seek out creative people and then I say, "Hey, I'm preaching this message, I got these truths, I want to get this across, can you guys give me some ideas?" Obviously, I don't want them to hijack the message, but I do want to allow them to speak into my message. And by the way, you don't always need to use a movie or a movie clip. I think that's been a fad, like drama was a fad for a while. People get so used to that. I think we've got to find other ways to illustrate things.

I love the concreteness and the sensory stuff that you use in your illustration process. For instance, your Alka-Seltzer illustration—it's not only an object lesson; it's got fizz, it moves, it bubbles.

That's the point. As another example, when I was preaching on the change in Peter's life in John 21, and how God forgave him, we used a simple object lesson by handing out small stones to everyone. I talked about how we have to throw some stones back in the water—stones of guilt and shame and failure. Then I encouraged people to take their stone and find a time and place next week to let it go. At times it's important to give people an object that they can take with them. It becomes a symbol of your application or that thing you want them to do.

One more question: What advice or encouragement would you give to pastors who feel a little timid about trying new things in their sermon illustrations?

Here's what I would say by way of encouragement: move past your fears by taking small attempts. You don't have to launch out with a first person narrative. Start by looking carefully at the text. Then, once you have the big idea or central truth you want to communicate, ask yourself this question: is there some other way to communicate this truth besides just a verbal illustration? And is the text already showing me how I should illustrate this sermon? You see, I would argue that the majority of texts will give you what you need. It's already in the text.

So I would say this: try something small and then watch and guage people's response to it. If people come up to you and they say, "That was so cool." Or "Wow, that really helped me understand this," then that causes me to say, "Okay, I can do this; I'll take the next step." And then start learning the rhythm of how often you should do something out of the box and when you shouldn't do it. Because too much "creativity" can eclipse the message you're trying to get across. It really needs to serve that message and serve the truth. Finally, I would say that people like suspense, so I've always tried to build suspense, surprise, and intrigue into my message. In other words, don't get too predictable. Using different categories of illustrations at different times keeps people guessing what's going to happen, and that will keep them engaged with the truth of God's Word.

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Dale Hummel is the senior pastor of the Wooddale Church in Eden Prairie, Minnesota.